Is There an Oil Galley on the Top Back of a Chevy 350
| Username | Post: Small Block Oiling Routing/Schematics? (Topic#192284) |
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| ChevroletR Senior Member Posts: 341  Loc: Mt. Airy, Maryland Reg: 01-24-03 User Info Send Private Topic |  06-18-08 03:54 PM - Post#1459135 Hello again. Having an issue with not getting any oil to the top end. When we primed and ran the engine, it had excellent oil pressure. Don't know how long the engine sat, but I know it has new bearings. Pulled the intake, pushrods and the lifters and didn't see any oil going to the lifters, even in the rear two. After holding a drill to my priming tool for a good 20 mins-30 mins like a machine shop suggested, we got just a couple of drops of oil to the top of the lifter. Yes, lifers were soaked in oil before installation because they came out of my car that was just running and put them into another small block along with the cam. It seems we have a clogged oil galley/passage somewhere and I'm not sure where to look and how to try and clean it up a bit. I know there are two or three plugs in the front of the block that when removed, should allow access to the plugs all the way in the rear of the block, correct? I'm taking suggestions but also wondering where does the oil go once it gets pumped out of the oil pump? I searched the net and forum and couldn't find anything. I know these small blocks are 'secondary oiling' where the valvetrain gets oil before the bottom end...if I remember correctly. Thanks in advance! 1970 Monte Carlo
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| 52chevybob Dedicated Enthusiast Posts: 5628 Reg: 05-27-08 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-18-08 04:27 PM - Post#1459176 In response to ChevroletR You're not going to be getting oil to the top end if the dist. isn't in the engine. The oil comes up the back side of the engine from the filter and goes to two places, the left bank of lifters and to the dist. where it then goes to the right bank of lifters. Without the dist. (that is what the rounded cavity in the bearing surface is for) you won't be getting any pressure and definitely no oil to the right side.
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| ChevroletR Senior Member Posts: 341 Loc: Mt. Airy, Maryland Reg: 01-24-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-18-08 05:30 PM - Post#1459236 In response to 52chevybob I'm using this tool to prime the pump which I thought was suppose to have the same collar as a distrubutor to do exactly what you said: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=... Correct me if I'm wrong... 1970 Monte Carlo
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| artak Valued Contributor Posts: 4008  Reg: 05-22-05 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-18-08 06:48 PM - Post#1459309 In response to ChevroletR That is the correct tool. Casting Numbers
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 Vaughn Member #455 "15th Year" Gold Supporting Member Posts: 18770  Loc: Colorado Springs, CO Reg: 08-08-04 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-19-08 08:56 AM - Post#1459664 In response to artak That is the right tool, and you should be getting oil pressure right away with it. It should fit fairly tightly into the oil galley in the block. I don't think you need to run the priming tool for 20-30 minutes, that is a little excessive. I usually prime to develop oil pressure, turn the crank over a couple of times, make sure that oil is making it up to the rocker arms - then start it. You won't harm anything by doing it long, so if you feel strongly about doing it that way - then go ahead and do it. Have you made sure that you have sufficient oil in the oil pan? If you changed the oil pan, did you make sure you have the pickup within 1/2-3/8 of the bottom of the oil pan? Do you have a known good oil pressure gauge? If you can't find any other reason for the oil pressure loss, you will have to pull the motor and find where the problem is. There is a picture somewhere here on this site, that shows the oil circuit in a SBC. I think Grumpy posted it a while back.
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 grumpyvette Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert -- Posts: 17685  Age: 73 Loc: FLORIDA USA Reg: 03-16-01 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-19-08 09:31 AM - Post#1459690 In response to Vaughn http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?... http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?... IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
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| ChevroletR Senior Member Posts: 341 Loc: Mt. Airy, Maryland Reg: 01-24-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-19-08 04:27 PM - Post#1459920 In response to Vaughn Thank you Grumpy. I don't normally let the engine prime that long either...usually a minute or so. Like I said, when I called the machine shop, he said he's had a couple of old engines that sat around for years and before he put them on his dyno he always made sure they had oil the the rockers out the tips of the pushrods. So he said these older engines wouldn't get oil and he primed them for about 20 minutes while cranking them over by hand and he eventually got a few drips to the rockers and he felt good to fire them up. The oil filter was filled and then I put 5 quarts of oil in the engine so I'm certain there was plenty of oil in the pan. If there was plenty of oil pressure, I'm sure the oil pickup had to be sucking up oil. We thought the oil pressure gauge was very old (went up to 80 psi with very little turning RPMs with the drill) so we put on a brand new mechanical gauge so I know there is 60-70 psi of cold engine oil pressure at the rear of the block. As I said, we had the engine running and then towed it down to get exhaust put on it and it was driven about 5 miles back home...still no oil to the top end. Please tell me if this sounds right...I know these diagrams are kind of hard to interpret...So the oil comes from the pump, to the oil filter adaptor, through the filter and to the top of the back of the engine, to the main galley and then to the front of the block, through the front cam bearing, to the lifter galleys? Could this mean that the front cam bearing has spun or is not lined up with the oil holes in the block or restricted of course? I'm wondering if I can take the main oil galley plug out of the front of the block and then prime the pump again to see if there is oil there. Then maybe I can take a look at the front cam bearing. Please let me know if I'm on the right track or not. Thanks 1970 Monte Carlo
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| fritz1990 Dedicated Member Posts: 6517  Age: 60 Loc: Kansas Reg: 02-16-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-19-08 05:17 PM - Post#1459941 In response to ChevroletR There is a small plug under the rear main bearing cap that is up in the block a lil' ways and if it is missing or not seated will do what you are describing. If I remember correctly I think you can run a welding rod down the oil pressure port at the rear of the block where the sender goes. It should not go down all the way to the rear main cap. Can't remember how far but I am going to go squat and gobble and I will go out and measure one on a spare block. Will be back in a few. Regards, Jeff 1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner 1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads 1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC. Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1, 2007 C6 Love this one! Don't have a nervous come together!
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| ChevroletR Senior Member Posts: 341 Loc: Mt. Airy, Maryland Reg: 01-24-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-19-08 05:27 PM - Post#1459950 In response to fritz1990 I saw something very quick about that on this page: http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/showdetl.cfm?st... If you could check, that would be great! Thanks 1970 Monte Carlo
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| fritz1990 Dedicated Member Posts: 6517 Age: 60 Loc: Kansas Reg: 02-16-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-19-08 05:48 PM - Post#1459965 In response to ChevroletR Doin' ya one better have pics the measurement is 8 1/2" from the top of the block: Regards, Jeff 1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner 1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads 1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC. Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1, 2007 C6 Love this one! Don't have a nervous come together!
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| Rick_L Member #409 Posts: 27928  Loc: Katy, Tx, USA Reg: 07-06-00 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-20-08 10:08 AM - Post#1460426 In response to fritz1990 If that plug is missing you will have unfiltered oil, but you will have oil pressure and you will have oil to the camshaft and lifters. If you are trying to get oil to the top end with a priming setup, you have to at least turn the engine over by hand to let all the lifters get oil.
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| ChevroletR Senior Member Posts: 341 Loc: Mt. Airy, Maryland Reg: 01-24-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 06-20-08 11:29 AM - Post#1460489 In response to Rick_L Thanks fritz, we'll check that anyhow! The engine got turned over pretty good when it was driven home from the exhaust shop as I stated so I'm pretty sure there is a blockage somewhere...just trying to figure out where to check! Thanks again and keep em comin if anybody still has input. 1970 Monte Carlo
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| ChevroletR Senior Member Posts: 341 Loc: Mt. Airy, Maryland Reg: 01-24-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 07-08-08 05:37 PM - Post#1473308 In response to ChevroletR Well when I was home, my dad and I briefly checked out the engine. The plug is in there Fritz, and we measured the same as you did with a rod. We used my old 350 block to pop the rear cam plug, front and rear cam bearings, and oil galley plugs out of the block to see where oil gets routed. I found that oil comes from the filter, to the pressure tap where the oil pressure gauge is tapped into the back of the block and that also taps into a hole in the main galley about 2 inches from the rear galley plug. Without putting the oil pan back on and putting oil in the engine and priming it with the too, I'm not sure if the main galley is getting oil. If it is, then oil travels to the rear cam bearing and there is a groove cut in the block where the rear cam bearing sits which also provides oil to the lifter galley, which we know for sure isn't getting any oil. I know Grumy's diagram shows this, but it's much easier for me to understand in person using a pen light and some tools! I'm guessing we have some junk or debris in one of these passages, or behind the rear cam bearing. Any idea how we can clean this oiling system out? Would that 'Motor Flush' or gasoline/kerosene be a good idea to put in the oil pan and pump through as long as the engine's not running to try to clean out some passages? Sure would beat stripping the block completely bare to have it hot tanked and new cam bearings and freeze plugs installed, etc. Always open for other ideas! Thanks 1970 Monte Carlo
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| 1968blackbetty Forum Newbie Posts: 28 Reg: 05-11-10 User Info Send Private Topic | 11-25-11 07:41 PM - Post#2161885 In response to ChevroletR Hello, I know this is an old topic, but I was wondering if you found a cause and/or solution? Thanks.
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| CNC BLOCKS N/E Senior Member Posts: 985 Loc: NORTH EAST Reg: 12-12-03 User Info Send Private Topic | 11-26-11 05:15 AM - Post#2161936 In response to fritz1990
There is a small plug under the rear main bearing cap that is up in the block a lil' ways and if it is missing or not seated will do what you are describing. If I remember correctly I think you can run a welding rod down the oil pressure port at the rear of the block where the sender goes. It should not go down all the way to the rear main cap. Can't remember how far but I am going to go squat and gobble and I will go out and measure one on a spare block. Will be back in a few. Regards, Jeff Leaving that plug out will not efffect oil pressure, The oil will by pass the oil filter once its full as the oil will go the path of least resistance. Here is a link to look over. http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15821&a...
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| triplefive Contributor Posts: 700  Loc: Brisbane Australia Reg: 07-08-11 User Info Send Private Topic | 11-29-11 02:08 AM - Post#2162956 In response to 1968blackbetty You said you are using an old distributor to pre-oil. Just double checking that you are using the distributor body and that it's fully installed into the block. The body of the distributor has a groove around the bottom that's part of the oil galley system and if a body or a proper pre-oiler isn't installed, oil will gush out above the cam gear drive and you won't have any pressure. Procrastination; the one thing I never put off until tomorrow.
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| Stillspeedin Forum Newbie Posts: 8 Loc: Central Texas Reg: 11-21-11 User Info Send Private Topic | 11-29-11 06:34 AM - Post#2163012 In response to triplefive I am using a distributor housing with the crank gear off. I'm not sure which way it's supposed to sit in the block, as far as being rotated, as there is no vacuum advance, so I went by how pickup electronics mounted, or tried to. Is that a factor? 2002 Custom Harley Fatboy, 2004 Chevy 4x4 Duramax with Banks system, 2008 F250 King Ranch 4x4 with H&S tuner, 1982 chevy 1/2 ton w 383 stroker. -------"No good deed goes unpunished"
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| triplefive Contributor Posts: 700 Loc: Brisbane Australia Reg: 07-08-11 User Info Send Private Topic | 11-29-11 04:36 PM - Post#2163257 In response to Stillspeedin shouldn't make any difference. I know there are some distributor housings that don't have the groove the full way around, but that shouldn't cause a loss of pressure. If it is one of those, I'd cut the groove the rest of the way around anyway, just to make sure it pre oils everything. I'm assuming that it's sitting in a manifold, to locate the groove the correct vertical distance down into the block? Are you using anything to locate the centre of the shaft onto the top of the oil pump drive shaft? You should use a piece of tubing - or better still, put the gear back on, but with the teeth ground off. It has a taper inside the end to centre the shaft as you install it. Procrastination; the one thing I never put off until tomorrow.
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Is There an Oil Galley on the Top Back of a Chevy 350
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